Wikipedia:Kumuniezh/An davarn/sizhunvezh 37, bloaz 2010

13/09/2010 — 19/09/2010

Skrivañ un dra bennak er seizhvet sizhun ha tregont eus 2010 | An davarn | sizhun a-raok — sizhun war-lerc'h

Bro-C'hall/Frañs

Poent eo aozañ ur vouezhiadeg d'am soñj: un hañvezh hon eus bet evit prederiañ, trawalc'h eo.--Gwendal 13 Gwe 2010 da 17:32 (UTC)

Ya, n'eus ket pell e oa kaoz eus ar gudenn-se c'hoazh, setu em eus meneget en-dro ar bajenn-mañ. N'eus bet den ebet oc'h ouzhpennañ tra pe dra abaoe. Kinnig a ran neuze lañsañ ar vouezhiadeg a-benn nebeut, amzer din da brientiñ an traoù hepken. A-du eo an holl ? --Y-M D (kaozeal) 13 Gwe 2010 da 17:39 (UTC)

Mat-tre eo ar mouezhiadegoù evit lakaat da dostaat tud ha ne weler ket kalz war al labour. Bianchi-Bihan 14 Gwe 2010 da 04:54 (UTC)

E-giz-se e kemeront perzh un tammig, n'eo ket un dra fall.--Gwendal 14 Gwe 2010 da 09:14 (UTC)

Un tamm disheñvel eo ma ali diwar-benn an doare da gemer perzh. Bianchi-Bihan 14 Gwe 2010 da 11:03 (UTC)

War-dro 6,8 miliard a dud ne labouront ket kalz amañ. Ha gwir eo e vint lakaet da dostaat gant ar vouezhiadeg-se ? --90.49.119.53 14 Gwe 2010 da 15:15 (UTC)

N'out nemet an hini kentañ. Chom a ra 6,799 999 999 miliard c'hoazh ma n'on ket faziet, met un tamm poan am bez gant an niveroù goude 6. Bianchi-Bihan 14 Gwe 2010 da 15:23 (UTC)

Ermengarde Anjev (dugez Breizh)

O labourat sioul e oan hag a-greiz-holl kollet ma labour ! mat e vije leuskel amzer d'al labourerien pa vezont war al labour. Bianchi-Bihan 15 Gwe 2010 da 16:10 (UTC)

Labour un dorn dizanv

• [[1]]

Sur-mat unan hag a raio ma labour em lec'h pa vin bet heuget a-walc'h? Bianchi-Bihan 17 Gwe 2010 da 06:59 (UTC)

Tennañ ar ger "Frañs" ([2]) pe adlakaat anezhañ ([3]) ne zegasont ket kalz a dra, nemet reiñ un tamm plijadur d'ar re a ra kemmoù evel-se. Sklaer eo ez eus dizemglev war an implij eus ar ger "Frañs" en hon holloueziadur. Kemer un diviz a-gevret an hini zo d'ober. Da c'hortoz e vefe mat d'an holl genlabourerien chom hep degas kemmoù er pennadoù zo dija. --Llydawr 19 Gwe 2010 da 19:58 (UTC)

Rhymni

Un draig zo a-dreuz war ar bajenn. N'on ket viti. Bianchi-Bihan 19 Gwe 2010 da 08:30 (UTC)

Bet on o teurel ur sell, hag o reizhañ traoù. Ha mat eo e-mod-se ? --Y-M D (kaozeal) 19 Gwe 2010 da 11:01 (UTC)

Fiskal. Trugarekaat. Bianchi-Bihan 19 Gwe 2010 da 16:24 (UTC)

Patrom:Kêrioù Kontelezh Casnewydd

Ne ya ket en-dro, un torr-penn. Koulskoude em eus graet war-dro tost an holl batromoù db kembre, met n'ouzon ket ober ken. Bianchi-Bihan 19 Gwe 2010 da 17:08 (UTC)

Images

Greetings! Sorry for only speaking English, I'm an ignorant foreigner... (I love languages, but I'm horrible at learning them. Unrequited love ;-) )

I noticed that your wiki has many files (according to Dibar:Stadegoù 5510) of which many are duplicates of files on Commons or thumbs of bigger images. Is anybody interested in creating an image cleanup project to reduce the number of redundant uploads and replace thumbs with full versions? I'd be willing to offer help with technical questions, templates, bot work etc. if you like (of course my usefulness is limited by my lack of language skills, but I'll try my best).

Another issue is the use of non-free files. The Wikimeida foundation has issued a policy on meta:Non-free content. It says that either content has to be under a free license or the community has to adopt an Exemption Doctrine Policy that regulates which non-free files are allowed. The policy can be a bit nasty as it limits the use of non-free content, but Wikipedia is about creating a free encyclopedia so in the end it is for the best of Wikipedia, isn't it? If you need advice about creating an Exemption Doctrine Policy (according to meta:Non-free content your project has none) or about adopting a "free content-only policy", feel free to ask me.

Anybody interested in starting this image cleanup? --Slomox 19 Gwe 2010 da 17:00 (UTC)

Aferioù merourien saoznegerien, a gav din. Bianchi-Bihan 19 Gwe 2010 da 17:11 (UTC)

I don't speak Breton. Does this mean something along the lines of Managed in English, I guess.? If so: This is your wiki, not mine. You decide ;-) I offered my help and/or advice. I can only give help in English (or any of the languages mentioned on my user page). Apart from that all decisions have to be made by the community. It's completely okay to manage everything in Breton. I'm not here to impose anything on you.

Okay, the full story is, that one user pointed out on Commons that your wiki hosts files that violate the Wikimedia policy on free content. I came here to make a proposal how to improve the file management. Adopting either an Exemption Doctrine Policy or a free-content-only policy is the best way to prevent any conflicts arising.

I want to put emphasis on this: I'm not here to impose anything on you. I just want to propose a solution and offer my help to prevent any problems. --Slomox 19 Gwe 2010 da 17:47 (UTC)

I suppose administrators can deal with this problem. Bianchi-Bihan 19 Gwe 2010 da 17:50 (UTC)

It's of course okay, if you want to handle it without outside help.

Just be aware that an Exemption Doctrine Policy needs to be adopted if you want to keep non-free content (and the policy needs to be executed when adopted). --Slomox 19 Gwe 2010 da 17:56 (UTC)

I'm an administrator and I think it would be great to clarify the rules and the exceptions, so things will be easier to manage after and won't be problematic. But I won't be able to do that without help, I agree to work with you on that subject. Unfortunately I haven't got a lot of free time, so we'll see how to do.

Could you explain the different Exemption Doctrine Policy that we could adopt, and what does they implies.

You talked of a violation of the Wikimedia policy on free content, by our Wikipedia, I think that some of our images are in this case, but are you talking of all the files put by our users ?

How does it work for the "image cleanup project" ?

Thanks for you help.--Y-M D (kaozeal) 19 Gwe 2010 da 18:18 (UTC)

The non-existance of an Exemption Doctrine Policy in itself is a breach of the policy. The Exemption Doctrine Policy is a prerequisite to hosting non-free files.

More info on an EDP can be found at meta:Resolution:Licensing policy. The policy basically is a document that says something along the lines of "You may upload copyrighted material if doing so is legal under US law (principle of fair use) and under the local law (in the case of Breton that is French law)". French Wikipedia has an EDP at fr:Wikipédia:Exceptions au droit d'auteur. You can look for inspiration there. I guess the French policy is a good starting point to adapt. They know the laws and they most likely have spend some thoughts what is okay and what not.

Any content that would violate copyright when placed in a Wikipedia article under either US law or French law needs to deleted and every non-free file that is kept needs information about the source and a rationale why the file is okay to use under US and French law.

The alternative to an EDP is adopting a free-content-only policy. That means no copyrighted content is allowed. Personally I like this way best (it matches the spirit of Wikipedia), on my home wiki nds.wp we have chosen for that and we entirely rely on Commons for free file content now, our file count is zero (especially for smaller projects this is nice because smaller projects often lack the law experts necessary to ensure that all uploaded content is legal). But of course this means that several images have to be deleted entirely with no possible alternative. That's your decision.

To ensure all files obey the EDP you have to look through them and avaluate them. That is a good occasion to remove images that are redundant with Commons content.

How does it work for the "image cleanup project" ? I'd propose this: First delete all files that are duplicates of Commons images. E.g. Skeudenn:KatangaP7a-50Shillings-1960 f.jpg: in the "Liammoù d'ar restr" section it says "Un eil eus ar restr-mañ eo ar restr da-heul, (evit gouzout hiroc'h) : Skeudenn:KatangaP7a-50Shillings-1960 f.jpg eus Wikimedia Commons". That means the file is a duplicate. This can be handled by a bot. The second step would be to delete smaller size duplicates. Any files with "180px-" (or any other number) at the start of the file is a smaller size version of a bigger file. E.g. Skeudenn:180px-Brassiere1808a.jpg.jpg is a duplicate of Skeudenn:Brassiere1808a.jpg. This can be done semi-automatically. These two steps should reduce the number of files by about 50% (very vague guess).

Meanwhile the new EDP should be adopted. After that the next step is to walk through all the files and individually look whether the file is a duplicate of Commons content not detected in the first two steps (if so, delete it). If it is no duplicate and licensed with a free license it should be transferred to Commons so all projects can benefit from it. If it is not licensed under a free license but it is an own work of the uploader he should add a free license. If it is no own work the uploader should seek permission by the original creator. If that is not possible we need to add a rationale why the image is necessary for Wikipedia and why it is allowed under the EDP. Finally, if no such rationale exists, the file should be deleted.

While doing these steps and deleting files we should of course be careful to not loose file descriptions in Breton if the Commons file has none but the local version has it. --Slomox 19 Gwe 2010 da 19:24 (UTC)

As a first step I created a list of all exact duplicates (537) at Implijer:Slomox/duplicates. The files are duplicates and can be safely deleted although the Breton file description may contain additional information in Breton language that lacks on Commons and needs to be transferred to there. --Slomox 20 Gwe 2010 da 23:10 (UTC)